EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
OPENING MUSIC
00:21 – Hello, welcome to this episode of UNFKD, the bonus series of my podcast Fucked Up by Faith, where I explore theological and theology-adjacent ideas which are harmful, or misunderstood, or just plain wrong. I’m Jude Mills.
And here we are at the beginning of February, and my word didn’t January feel like it lasted forever? Possibly, well, almost certainly because of the past two weeks when we have seen the new president of the United States of America attempting to… how should we describe it? …wreak havoc might be a good way of describing it…with democracy and with human rights.
So, today’s episode is dedicated to all my friends who live in the United States of America.
01:31 – Now I know that those of you who listen to this podcast will have seen and heard the prayer delivered by Episcopal Bishop Marianne Edgar Budde who a couple of weeks ago in the National Cathedral in Washington spoke directly to President Donald Trump and in her address she asked him to show mercy. And her particular plea was to LGBTQ plus people and migrants. This is what she said or a little bit of what she said.
“Millions have put their trust in you. (This is her speaking to the president) And as you told the nation yesterday, you have felt the providential hand of a loving God. In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian and transgender children in democratic, republican and independent families. Some who fear for their lives.”
So her message, her plea for mercy has, it would seem gone unheeded. A slew of executive orders have targeted migrants and LGBTQ plus people.Those which look at gender issues have had a particular emphasis on the rights of trans and non-binary people and much of what we have seen is essentially erasure. So I’ve spoken about this many times on this podcast and on other people’s podcasts and I will say it again. This issue is the hill that I will die on. And so this episode is equally dedicated to trans and non-binary people in the USA and elsewhere who are feeling very frightened right now. Let’s be very clear.
Targeting and vilifying a minority group is straight out of the fascist playbook. It cannot be repeated often enough. It is not hyperbole.
MUSICAL BREAK
04:40 – Bishop Budde’s message was shared widely and her image and her words have been used in memes and in social media posts by Christian and non-Christian liberals and progressives across social media. And as you might expect, it’s also been shared by people who don’t approve of her message. And in particular those people who describe themselves as “Christian nationalists”, completely lost their minds about it. They claimed that she was preaching what they called, quote, “toxic empathy”, or that she was committing, quote, “the sin of empathy” and that her message was somehow unbiblical and all the other nonsense that they claim in the name of Christ. Now some of the venom and the hatred that I have seen pointed at the bishop by other so-called Christians has actually had me questioning my own theological stance and wondering if Satan might actually be real.
So, in delivering her message in the National Cathedral directly to the President (and he was not amused as you probably saw) she was more than just speaking truth to power, which one might argue is the role of someone in a position of seniority in the Church.
She was speaking truth to power and that was important and brave. And it was also, I think, more than a message of hope. Although it was a message of hope to people who might be beginning to think that hope might be losing in this scenario.
It was both of those things. But I also believe that it was a call to action. Now it wasn’t overt. She wasn’t actually rallying Christians around her, but it was there – and you have to know how to read between the lines. Progressive and liberal Christians, and indeed all Christians who don’t align with Christian nationalism, will have heard her, as I did. And they will have started to think about what they will be prepared to say and do. And what they will be prepared to risk for their fellow human beings. Now, it probably seems really obvious that Bishop Mariann’s theology is progressive and is deeply rooted in social justice. I’ll link to her website in the show notes.
What I thought would be interesting for the purposes of this podcast is to look at where some of these ideas of social justice in modern Christianity might come from. And so today I’m going to focus a bit on Liberation Theology.
MUSICAL BREAK
08:46 – Liberation theology takes the view that salvation isn’t just about individual spiritual redemption. It also involves liberation from earthly suffering and perhaps most importantly in this worldview from systemic injustice. And there are some key principles of liberation theology.
Firstly is the concept of “preferential option for the poor.” This is the idea that God sides particularly with the impoverished and the oppressed and that Christians have a special duty to help them. It’s important that we think about this very differently to the kinds of Christian charity that you might turn to in your mind when you think about helping the poor. This is very different.
Then, there is the view that salvation isn’t about individual spiritual redemption, as I’ve mentioned, but also involves liberation from the systems which cause injustice. Liberation theologians often interpret biblical stories – for example Exodus – through this lens, seeing them as examples of God’s desire to free people from oppression.
And then there’s the critique of traditional church hierarchies and their historical alignment with wealth, with power and with the interests of wealth and power. Liberation theologians argued that the church should actively work for social justice rather than to maintain the status quo or implement additional systems which just put a sticking plaster on the problems. And we can see these core tenets echoed in mainstream modern Christianity.
11:13 – Now, it’s probably more accurate to talk about liberation theologies rather than liberation theology singular because the liberatory aspects of theology have been and can be applied in different cultural contexts and by different groups. So black and feminist and queer theologies have all been influenced by aspects of liberation theology.
But the emergence of liberation theology as a movement is associated with Latin America during the 1960s and 70s. It was a radical movement within the Catholic Church. Although it is important to point out that theologies of Black liberation were also emerging at the same time in the American Civil Rights Movement and in apartheid South Africa.
12:11 – But you’ll find that most theologians, when they talk about Liberation Theology with a big L, are referencing Latin American Liberation Theology. And there are several major figures in the Latin American movement. And I will link to some resources if you’re interested in reading more about them. However, one person that it’s important to mention was the person you’ll often see referenced as the “father” of Liberation Theology and that was Gustavo Gutierrez. Now Gutierrez was a Peruvian priest who wrote the ground-breaking book “A Theology of Liberation” which was published in 1971. In this book, he argued that human salvation wasn’t just an individual thing, that it was also structural and political and that structural social change that favoured the poor and the oppressed was a necessity.
And if you think this sounds a little bit like socialism, you’d be correct. The movement and Gutierrez in particular was influenced by Marxist social analysis. And although not all liberation theologians embraced Marxism, it was definitely influenced by that thought. So he wrote this, that
“A socialist system is more in accord with the Christian principles of true brotherhood, justice and peace. Only socialism can enable Latin America to achieve true development.”
The movement grew up in a very particular place in a very particular time, so there’s a lot about this Latin American liberation theology, which is particular to Latin America. Those of you who are of a progressive frame of mind might think, well, isn’t this just Christianity? And my answer would be, oh, yes, but also no. Liberation theology is not without its critics. And that’s mostly because of its emphasis on political and radical change. Some Christians and some Christian denominations would consider that personal salvation is much more important than the emphasis on social transformation. But also there is a prevailing idea even in modern so-called progressive denominations that Christians shouldn’t really get involved in politics.
Now, if you’ve listened to my episode on politics, you’ll know that I think that’s bollocks. Everything is political. Jesus was political. Jesus got himself crucified because of politics.
So although aspects of liberation theology have have been kind of absorbed into mainstream Christianity and certainly into mainstream Catholicism. Pope Francis is warm towards some ideas of liberation theology. At the time, in the 70s when this was emerging, there wasn’t such a warm welcome in the Vatican. The Pope at the time – John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger, who later became Pope Benedict. They heavily criticise aspects of liberation theology and in particular, and perhaps not surprisingly, its use of Marxist concepts and its emphasis on political activism.
And as I’ve mentioned, the influence of liberation theology extends beyond Latin America and the specific circumstances of that time and those places. It has inspired other theological movements which have focused on liberation from all forms of oppression.
MUSICAL BREAK
16:52 – So to circle back to my opening thoughts and remarks about LGBTQ+ people and particularly trans and non-binary people in the USA right now and to Bishop Budde’s remarks directly to the President about those people who are frightened. Liberation theology has had quite a significant influence along with queer theory on queer theology and one person who was deeply influential both in liberation theology and in queer and feminist theology was the theologian Marcella Althaus-Reid. Now she was born in Buenos Aires in Argentina and grew up out of the liberation theology movement and she actually later became a professor in divinity at the University of Edinburgh which is a nice Scottish link for me.
Now one of the critiques that she gave of liberation theology was its lack of emphasis on gender and sexuality. And she thought that it was still coming from a very heterosexist place. Her work is challenging. I don’t mean that it’s difficult. I mean challenging in the best sense of the word. It challenges norms across the board. Her books include “Indecent Theology” and “The Queer God” and of course she is deeply influential on the modern generation of queer theologians. I’m going to link to some resources in the show notes.
Having said all that, you do not need to be deeply immersed in queer theology to accept the principle that a theology of liberation is inclusive of all people who are oppressed and who suffer under systems of discrimination, oppression, marginalisation, hatred, and violence. So if you didn’t hear – in Bishop Budde’s address a call to action, here’s another one…
19:19 – This is from the Gospel of Matthew chapter 25 beginning to read at verse 34.
“Then the King will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared before you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food. I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked and you gave me clothing. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me.”
And the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the King will answer them.
“Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.””
CLOSING MUSIC
20:56 Thank you for listening to UNFKD, the bonus series for the podcast Fucked Up by Faith. I’m Judy Mills. You can listen to the podcast on Spotify or in all the usual podcasty places. Wherever you listen, I’d really appreciate a like, a follow, a review. Let people know. That would be brilliant. You can follow the podcast on Instagram @fkdupbyfaith spelled FKD or you can find me via my website judemills.com. I’d love to hear from you. Go well.
References
Althaus-Reid, Marcella, Indecent Theology : Theological Perversions in Sex, Gender and Politics (London: Routledge, 2010)
———, The Queer God (Routledge, 2004)
Bishop Mariann, ‘A Service of Prayer for the Nation Homily’, Episcopal Diocese of Washington, 2025 <https://edow.org/2025/01/22/a-service-of-prayer-for-the-nation-homily/> [accessed 2 February 2025]
Edgar Budde, Mariann, ‘Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde’, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, 2025 <https://www.mariannbudde.com/> [accessed 2 February 2025]
Gospel Reading – MATTHEW 25: 34 – 40 (NRSV)
Gutiérrez, Gustavo, A Theology of Liberation: History, Politics, and Salvation (Maryknoll, N.Y.: Orbis Books, 1988)
Liberation Theology, ‘Liberation Theologies | Online Library and Reference Center’, Liberationtheology.org, 2020 <https://liberationtheology.org/> [accessed 2 February 2025]
Queer Theology, ‘QueerTheology.com | Resources for LGBTQ+ Christians and Supporters – Queer Theology’, Queer Theology, 2025 <https://www.queertheology.com> [accessed 2 February 2025]